ChuToroZuke uses them. He's a proper nihonshu otaku, after all.

@guest, LOL. I should say "thank you!" :-D It's like when Ono Jiro called Nakazawa Daisuke a shokunin for mastering tamago, haha.

@Shi: Riedel makes two sake glasses as you mentioned already. However within those two you can also get machine made or crystal (much thinner, more fragile, but really elegant in touch/feel). Most people I've talked to say the machine and more affordable versions are sufficient.

Yes I do have the Junmai glass, and really do believe in it. However it does not work with every single Junmai....but if you like to drink muroka nama genshu Junmai, sake that has been aged, full bodied and want it to breathe quicker to release more aromas and accentuate umami, then this glass is for you. So far of all the Junmai sake I've tasted in Japan with the glass, does work really well, and even Junmai Ginjo Muroka Nama Genshu, as well as If the Junmai (or Junmai Ginjo) is lighter bodied, letting it breathe too much would weaken the finish (and shorten it).

I personally have not tasted with and also do not have the Riedel Daiginjo glass. Some say it is a rip off and does little to it, and essentially you could get away with drinking a Daiginjo grade sake in a Chardonnay or Riesling glass, which it is not that far off from.
The Daiginjo glass is also offered in a version with a wine stem, and one without.

You can find these glasses easily at any Riedel shop in Tokyo, the one in Ginza near Yurakucho side will surely have it, and you can also check out some of their small sake selections (and wine) as well. However if you or anyone lives in Taipei or Hong Kong you can purchase the Riedel Junmai (and likely Daiginjo glass) there as well. Still not available in the USA yet in retail shops.

It is also available from Amazon for $45 with free shipping.

https://www.amazon.com/Riedel-Vinum-Leaded-Crystal-Daiginjo/dp/B0000DC0ZJ

the junmai glass is also on ebay from Japanese sellers. https://www.ebay.com/itm/RIEDEL-Extreme-Junmai-Sake-Glass-495ml-1-Piece-4441-27-1-from-Japan-/153293536744

Thank you so much for that analysis @ChuToroZuke the breakdown and detail on all the options was very very helpful. We'll be spending time in Hong Kong, Taipei, and Japan in the next month so will keep our eyes open for the Junmai glass!

Also thank you for hunting those down for me @guest if we weren't going to be in Asia so soon I'd definitely consider alternative options

@Shi, it is best that you buy it directly from Japan, and if you are going to be in Tokyo anyway then drop by any Riedel shop there so you will get the original packaging. The setback is that you will need to hand carry it on the plane and not pack it in your suitcase to ensure its safety (a large backpack would be sufficient). You can also ask if they have the two glass box set, it ends up being a little cheaper buying a pair in a box rather than one. With mail order you run the risk of not knowing the quality and packaging, and there's nothing you can do if it arrives cracked/broken. .

That Riedel junmai glass is indeed quite beautiful. It almost reminds me of the coupe glass, used for martini style cocktails these days.

Thank you for the advice @ChuToroZuke - we will plan on visiting the Riedel shop in Tokyo and make sure to allocate space to carry it on with us on the trip home!

Forgot to follow up on this but once again wanted to express my appreciation @ChuToroZuke - we did end up picking up a pair of the extreme Junmai glass while in Tokyo and as you noted really enjoy drinking Junmai and some Junmai Ginjo out of it!

So the conclusion of our tale was a great success and thank you once more.

Thanks so much for the report back Shi, and for your support of sake and the industry! I recently used the same Riedel Junmai glasses again after not using them for a while, and was surprised at the results. It seems to work particularly well with the newer seasonal releases of fall/autumn sake (more so if they are Jumai), so give it a try with those.

When you mentioned antenna shops, I completely forgot, that I have actually gone into the Yurakucho location of Kimijimaya. Didn't even know the name, until I just checked the map. Right in the middle of all those antenna/satellite shops. Went after buying my loaf of bread from Centre the Bakery. That area is one of my favorite morning walks in Tokyo.

I believe the Ishikawa, Kochi, and Okinawa antenna shops are nearby to where you are. Although the Okinawa antenna shop is more awamori focused and I don't recall seeing any sake in there. Some of these antenna shop offerings do really sell the true jizake, not the high end brand name ones, but sake that is more local and common...some you could find elsewhere in Tokyo but some you can't, mostly at the Junmai or Junmai Ginjo (and honjozo) levels. Truly a nice walk just visiting all the various shops and area around Yurakucho, quite a lot to see! The Hyogo antenna shop apparently went through remodeling and looks more snazzy, and the Tatsuriki selection seems to have expanded, I believe there may be a sake bar in that building somewhere as well that's open in the evenings.

I am curious the difference between large sake makers and revered brands vs. small batch jizake. Which would be considered the higher in quality? Sometimes, when I've visited towns outside Tokyo, I've stopped into local sake stores, a few off the beaten path. Sometimes they are actually really nice shops. And they only carry stuff made nearby. I think I've been into a few in Kanazawa, Hida Takayama, and the nearby Kawagoe.

I did see last time I went to Yurakucho, there was indeed a renovated antenna store which heavily placed focus on its sake.
A sake bar in Ginza which seems to come up in a lot of foreign travel guides, is called Sake no Ana, with 160 types on hand. Right next to that wonderful classic western restaurant Rengatei. I think I will also check out the Ginza Kengyo Sake Cellar.

@Menchikatsu, at that rate the answer is more subjective. The more you taste, the better your sense of preference, flavor profile proclivities, and value your money can buy, and also if you think about food pairings. No doubt large producers also make fine sake (especially high end), but small producers make equally if not sometimes more powerful and impactful brews on all sides of the spectrum and willing to push boundaries that large producers won’t to distinguish themselves.

I guess it helps if you understand the philosophy and expression the sake maker is trying for, the geography and local food culture, as well as their limitations. It’s the same thing with wine.

The range and possibilities of sake, is becoming more and more endless to me. I am actually a big supporter of the small town hero, and note a quality decline whenever beer/wine makers ramp up production. So I would hope small batch makers do the most exciting work.

I am a sorta nerd about terroir. I like to think the term goes beyond just climate & soil, into local practices and tastes. "A sense of place" really covers a lot. So I would certainly think about a town's sake in context with the daily food they live in and think about.

On another note, I noticed you sometimes compare certain sake to a Burgundy Chablis grand cru. Recently, I've been trying to sample these, along with Meursault, Pouilly Fuisse, and California chardonnay. I think the preference between fans of metal vs. oak barrels is interesting.
This general category of 'drink' is all encompassing, and you can really discover similarities different drinks have in common, when exploring from different angles.

@Menchikatsu, I think the more I’ve been drinking White Burgundy and Alsace white wine recently, the less now I think the comparisons are as valid. There is more noteable sharpness from grape tartness and acidity that is different in sake, and even certain bottles when I have them side by side with white wine don’t have that similar characteristics. But I think in terms of enjoyment and to a lesser extent for pairing, you could put them together and try a food item to compare their effects. I haven’t had the pleasure to try a fresh Nama sake of a solid producer in Japan side by side with a great white wine with a similar profile just yet... but I’m sure if you used the right glassware it would be quite enjoyable for both.

Ok, I will note that the white wine to sake comparison is only valid at a certain entry level, but not as you go deeper into it.

I'd think, it's not common to see white wine served side by side with sake, to a single customer at most restaurants. Although it is acceptable and the norm in Japan, to order small pours of high end sake, it would be the bottle of white burgundy that is harder to ask for a glass. I'd think they'd ask you to buy the whole bottle, as it is in most western restaurants. And I've not seen a place where you're required to order the full bottle of sake, rather than just a glass.

Proper glassware is really a detail fan's subject, and I'd like to see it come up more. Sometimes, when a Japanese restaurant offers you a choice between what little pottery/ceramic sake cups to use, I wonder if I chose the wrong one... or if they aren't even offering the best option. I wonder the implications of sake, of trapping the aroma in a glass, as they do for wine.

@Menchikatsu, that is correct. It's much simpler to pour a village level Chablis or Bourgogne ("Burgundy Blanc") literally table wine by the glass and let its sharp acidity have enough power to do really simple effective pairings. It's much lower cost to a restaurant to do a pairing that way. Same for Sancerre, Pouilly Fuisse, Pouilly Fume (except for the higher end pricey bottles). Of the places that do Chassagne or Puligny Montrachet by the glass, expect a higher price point for it.

There's so much to learn about different glassware. A trained certified wine sommelier who has a taste for sake might be able to approximate the right glass. I'm not a huge fan of some of the ceramic cups for sake in Japanese sushi restaurants in America, and depending on the sake, in general most white wine or Chardonnay glasses would work, but depending on the structure of the sake, a wine glass could accentuate a certain sake's weakness or a profile you don't want accentuated. It takes a lot of knowledge, wisdom, and experience to determine what's the best case....so trial and error learning is best. But this is all moot if a restaurant sells sake by the glass but the rate of attrition for the bottle is uncontrolled, you ask for a wine glass to give it a bit more surface area to breathe for a bottle that has been opened for a while, and you pretty much let any residual aromas escape... so maybe that kiriko is better or that shorter ceramic glass (hard to say then).

I'd love to have more of the nicer Montrachets at all. Though I probably won't come across it in a restaurant, unless part of a very nice course menu wine pairing. How much a glass of Leflaive or Leroy would even cost... probably the entire budget for dinner.

I did happen to be treated to some nice sakes tonight, at the hands of a veteran sommelier. He poured me by default, sake using a wine glass. So it's nice to see some progress on this side of the world towards sake. They keep some ceramic cups on hand as an option. I sampled the Niwa no Uguisu 50, a yamahai, and a few others.

Combining the subjects of a) wine glass shape affecting a sake's taste + b) and pairing with the right food, this really becomes very complicated! It must take some great intuition to know exactly which glass goes best with the sake, which pairs best with a certain dish. So there is no substitute for experience when things gets this advanced. And I would hope whoever is in charge of the sake, is actually tasting the bottle after opening.

@Menchikatsu Leflaive has a sub label Olivier Leflaive, and they also have village level wine akin to honjozo or futsushu, Macon and Pouilly Fuisse (of course the PF is at least x2 to x3 a typical PF). I don't think Grand Cru level will ever be offered by the glass, at most it would be 1er Cru but certainly not Leflaive or Leroy kind of brands.

Last I checked September 2018, Esquisse Ginza had Okuyokawa Tatsuriki Dragon
Kimoto Junmai Daiginjo by the glass. Not unicorn, but it was an interesting choice.

Speaking of sake in wine glasses:

https://www.nytimes.com/paidpost/jfoodo/is-sake-the-new-white-wine.html

If I ever saw a premier cru of that high reputation offered by the glass (at a reasonable price) I would jump at the chance to have with dinner.

I've heard Esquisse is getting better and better, as he continues to refine and improve his cooking. It's always been on my radar, right next to L'Effervescence.

On the topic of this article you've linked, I've actually had the lucky fortune of visiting a few of these restaurants.

I did not know Orsa & Winston had such a strong sake program, I would like to return, and sit at the counter, where it's a difference menu from tables. I like where the beverage director notes about wine glasses: “You also have the opportunity of smelling the sake first. We want it to be equated to that same full-sensory wine experience.” And that he refers to sake as what pairs best here.

The Rappahannock oyster bar part is interesting, the idea of drinking sake from an empty shell. I twice dined in front of the previous chef, at his two LA restaurants, before he left for Detroit, to start a modern izakaya called Antihero. Quite a forward thinking guy, quite skilled.

Cosme is especially interesting to see, being that their food is modern Mexican. But maybe not so surprising, being that ceviche is essentially a highly dressed citric sashimi, much like Italian crudo.

It's nice to see more and more high profile American restaurants, exploring the possibilities of sake in their restaurants, and educating new diners to the possibilities.

Oh that's quite an interesting design, I'm also curious as to the function of the centre spike! Have you had an opportunity to try compare it with other glasses when trying a daiginjo?

Funnily enough my sister got me a christmas present of a daiginjo glass as well:
https://kimuraglass.net/product/tasaki-sake-daiginjo-whisky-4oz/

Sadly, I haven't had a chance to open a daiginjo to try it out yet. The shape does seem to resemble your Usuhari glasses though sans the centre protrusion.

@Shi , actually I bought it as a gift for a friend. But now, I'm thinking of getting one for myself!

The glass you got for Christmas reminds me of the ones some bars use for whisky.

Also, I'm quite interested in finding that Riedel you mentioned last time. I bring back several cups with me from Japan, on every trip.

@ChuToroZuke
So I have BS日テレ on my TV. And I just stumbled upon a show called Furuhata Maeda Enishi Sake 古畑前田のえにし酒. Basically, these two cute hosts walk around different neighborhoods, and check out places to drink. This episode was in Shimbashi. They went to a place called Sake dokoro Ame 酒どころ海美. I thought it was kind of a silly show, judging by the appearance of the two girls the show's named after (one's a pop idol group member, and the other a seiyuu voice actress). But when the proprietress brought out the Toyobijin and Juyondai for them, I started to think, they're not messing around!

Here's the link for the show, and the izakaya they went. I think the place specializes in sake pairings. Perhaps you might enjoy getting into this show.
https://www.bs4.jp/enishizake/
https://tabelog.com/tokyo/A1301/A130103/13162276/

Yeah I have an Usuhari Daiginjo glass, first tasted with it as a friend had it. Those things are light and very fragile. It works quite nicely with Junmai Daiginjo and Daiginjo sake, and depending on the profile accentuates rice umami flavors quite incredibly, whether the sake overall drinks masculine or feminine. Might still want to use it along with a Chardonnay wine glass as it may not be the best depending on the brew (or Burgundy if a long term low temperature fermented/aged Junmai Daiginjo).

Thanks for the link to the TV show, too bad no full episodes are available for streaming.

It's nice to know that Usuhari glass is not just for show. Really well crafted I think.

If you're looking for it, just for reference. On bilibili, but you can find the episode if you search: 191229 古畑前田のえにし酒 ep11
The sake izakya in Shimbashi is the first half. The Toyobijin is brought out during the 5 minute mark, and Juyondai around 10 minute.

(I'm not sure if that website is doing anything to conflict with Japan tv contracts, but as a person in Japan who already has BS included in their tv package, I think it should be acceptable to rewatch.)

One of the answers will be part of Sake Chronicles Volume 5, I'd rather save the material for that. The modern kappo would be Shunji Japanese cuisine (people love the sushi, but the strengths are more in the cooked dishes). I've been to Hayato as well.

Hopefully not derailing too far off the subject but I'm curious about your thoughts on Godenya in Hong Kong?

We've dined there twice and have quite enjoyed the experience where he pairs sake with various dishes with certain ones being served warm as noted above. I feel that Goshimaさん's pairings have worked quite well for us with his dishes which we have also found very tasty.

@Shi Goshima san of Godenya is very well regarded amongst sake people in Tokyo. He is for sure a wizard for serving sake at the right temperature and focuses entirely on pairings with food. The type of sake he selects is very artisan jizake that connoisseurs will enjoy, but I think he also serves them so that anyone will also appreciate it. He is able to procure very eclectic brews (some of which are aged possibly by himself). His brother runs the kitchen and my friends who have visited said it is some of the best kappo washoku in Hong Kong. I’m also told he is also super knowledgeable, like an encyclopedia, whether it be sake, food, culture. He did a collaboration earlier this year with one of the Cantonese fine dining seafood restaurants for sake pairing, that would have been fun.

It is on my to visit list.

No problems at all @Shi , always good to hear new tips about worthwhile places in different cities. I think that sort of goes along with the bottom portion of this thread anyways.

@ChuToroZuke , good idea to wait. I'll look forward to your Volume 5 in anticipation then.

I haven't been back to Shunji in a long time, but this makes me want to go back and try it. I used to frequent the soba/snack restaurant Yabu on the same block. That intersection of Pico street is convenient for Japanese food in every direction. With nearby Sawtelle, Mitsuwa down the road, and Marukai right there. The locally famous, referral only yakiniku Totoraku is also closeby on Pico.

You've already been to Hayato! I have not yet. Do you think he's moved away from the styles he trained under, at Goryukubo and Ishikawa?